1 00:00:05,500 --> 00:00:09,580 [Music] 2 00:00:16,820 --> 00:00:13,910 what caused you to explore the world of 3 00:00:19,220 --> 00:00:16,830 lip-syncing um well I've you know I was 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:19,230 a teenager a young teenager in the 90s 5 00:00:22,700 --> 00:00:21,210 when this was happening and that's when 6 00:00:24,380 --> 00:00:22,710 I really started to pay attention to pop 7 00:00:26,870 --> 00:00:24,390 culture when I say this was happening 8 00:00:28,929 --> 00:00:26,880 when this sort of like wave of scandals 9 00:00:32,089 --> 00:00:28,939 hit it was just like one after another 10 00:00:34,430 --> 00:00:32,099 so I always sort of cared it was always 11 00:00:36,350 --> 00:00:34,440 just in my head and then I think what 12 00:00:38,150 --> 00:00:36,360 inspired me to write about this and it 13 00:00:40,100 --> 00:00:38,160 wasn't published till months later but 14 00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:40,110 was the Mariah Carey New Year's Eve 15 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:43,170 performance you know which the 16 00:00:46,970 --> 00:00:44,610 lip-syncing thing was a minor component 17 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:46,980 but she had seemed to during that 18 00:00:50,420 --> 00:00:48,690 performance admit that she had plans to 19 00:00:52,189 --> 00:00:50,430 lip-sync even though she didn't 20 00:00:53,810 --> 00:00:52,199 obviously when she started out with 21 00:00:55,639 --> 00:00:53,820 emotions she's saying that she was 22 00:00:57,229 --> 00:00:55,649 missing that and she did it and then we 23 00:00:58,819 --> 00:00:57,239 belong together comes on and she says oh 24 00:01:00,349 --> 00:00:58,829 this is the album version and she didn't 25 00:01:02,150 --> 00:01:00,359 like that and I just thought well that's 26 00:01:03,439 --> 00:01:02,160 really interesting I'm where I carry it 27 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:03,449 basically admitted that she plays a 28 00:01:07,969 --> 00:01:05,610 lip-sync she didn't do it just because 29 00:01:10,010 --> 00:01:07,979 she's the kind of person the performer 30 00:01:12,140 --> 00:01:10,020 that you would expect to never lip-sync 31 00:01:14,510 --> 00:01:12,150 even though she does because you know 32 00:01:17,210 --> 00:01:14,520 what you buy from her wholesale is her 33 00:01:20,060 --> 00:01:17,220 voice so I thought oh wow like culture 34 00:01:22,460 --> 00:01:20,070 has come a long way from the time when 35 00:01:24,170 --> 00:01:22,470 this was completely taboo to having 36 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:24,180 somebody on stage essentially announce 37 00:01:31,010 --> 00:01:27,090 that they had planned to lip-sync you 38 00:01:34,910 --> 00:01:31,020 know and that was like 2016 so yeah I 39 00:01:36,140 --> 00:01:34,920 guess those 27 goes 2016 to 2017 so I 40 00:01:38,330 --> 00:01:36,150 just thought that was interesting the 41 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:38,340 sea change yeah so your article is great 42 00:01:42,260 --> 00:01:39,930 because you can click on different links 43 00:01:43,340 --> 00:01:42,270 and you can see those examples of it as 44 00:01:45,109 --> 00:01:43,350 you kind of walk people through the 45 00:01:47,870 --> 00:01:45,119 history of lip-sync and we'll make sure 46 00:01:51,649 --> 00:01:47,880 that your link is up on our website and 47 00:01:53,690 --> 00:01:51,659 our Facebook and so on one that I found 48 00:01:55,999 --> 00:01:53,700 on YouTube that I don't think you had 49 00:01:57,889 --> 00:01:56,009 was the Celine Dion one at the Coliseum 50 00:02:05,209 --> 00:01:57,899 in Vegas have you seen that one I don't 51 00:02:06,499 --> 00:02:05,219 know so this one was personally 52 00:02:09,589 --> 00:02:06,509 disappointing for me because I'm 53 00:02:12,770 --> 00:02:09,599 actually a proud Celine Dion fan I've 54 00:02:13,790 --> 00:02:12,780 seen her Vegas show a few times I'm not 55 00:02:15,470 --> 00:02:13,800 so proud of her 56 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:15,480 now because we just got done doing this 57 00:02:19,220 --> 00:02:17,730 deep dive on transgender movement and 58 00:02:21,290 --> 00:02:19,230 she's come out with these gender-neutral 59 00:02:24,260 --> 00:02:21,300 clothing for children that I think is 60 00:02:28,610 --> 00:02:24,270 kind of nuts great you should see the ad 61 00:02:29,990 --> 00:02:28,620 for it if you haven't seen it it's yeah 62 00:02:31,430 --> 00:02:30,000 it's pretty bizarre but anyway we're 63 00:02:33,230 --> 00:02:31,440 coming off of just doing a deep dive in 64 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:33,240 transgender and gender dysphoria and 65 00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:35,730 gender dysphoria from our research it's 66 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:36,930 not something you should be encouraging 67 00:02:41,870 --> 00:02:39,210 children to suffer from I don't know 68 00:02:43,790 --> 00:02:41,880 what she's thinking on that but anyway I 69 00:02:45,740 --> 00:02:43,800 found on YouTube and you definitely got 70 00:02:48,620 --> 00:02:45,750 to check this out she's singing the 71 00:02:51,170 --> 00:02:48,630 final song you know my heart will go on 72 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:51,180 the big conclusion Titanic 73 00:02:55,850 --> 00:02:53,090 she ain't dancing and running around 74 00:02:58,100 --> 00:02:55,860 right and and all the sudden you hear 75 00:03:00,620 --> 00:02:58,110 all this feedback coming from the sound 76 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:00,630 system like really loud ear piercing 77 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:02,970 feedback anybody who would hear that 78 00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:05,370 would naturally normally stop singing 79 00:03:08,270 --> 00:03:07,920 turn around and go what the hell's going 80 00:03:11,870 --> 00:03:08,280 on 81 00:03:14,060 --> 00:03:11,880 instead she keeps quote-unquote singing 82 00:03:15,950 --> 00:03:14,070 she doesn't put the mic down because if 83 00:03:17,810 --> 00:03:15,960 she were to do that she knows that that 84 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:17,820 audio track is still going and it would 85 00:03:21,410 --> 00:03:19,530 be the dead giveaway that she's not 86 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:21,420 really singing it right this only 87 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:23,370 rational explanation as to why she 88 00:03:27,590 --> 00:03:25,770 continues to apparently continue to sing 89 00:03:28,970 --> 00:03:27,600 is that to put the microphone down would 90 00:03:31,580 --> 00:03:28,980 have revealed that she was lip-synching 91 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:31,590 on that song and she actually was 92 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:33,690 interviewed at some point around the 93 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:35,130 same time one of these candles maybe was 94 00:03:38,780 --> 00:03:36,570 them where I carry where they asked her 95 00:03:40,370 --> 00:03:38,790 you know about lip sing and she said oh 96 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:40,380 come on people 97 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:42,690 you can't expect performers to be going 98 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:44,850 out night after night in being able to 99 00:03:50,090 --> 00:03:47,610 sing you know every song be realistic 100 00:03:52,610 --> 00:03:50,100 people so she was essentially defending 101 00:03:55,250 --> 00:03:52,620 her practice but for me considering the 102 00:03:57,740 --> 00:03:55,260 money people are paying see Celine Dion 103 00:03:59,840 --> 00:03:57,750 who is a vocalist just like you point 104 00:04:03,410 --> 00:03:59,850 out Mariah Carey she's alright vocalist 105 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:03,420 you're paying to hear the vocals and if 106 00:04:08,690 --> 00:04:05,730 they're lip-syncing I'm thinking wow we 107 00:04:10,790 --> 00:04:08,700 got a major issue going on here well I 108 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:10,800 mean I think it's also you're not just 109 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:12,450 paying for the vocalist you're paying 110 00:04:17,060 --> 00:04:14,610 for the perfection of the performer so 111 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:17,070 it's a matter of like what what do you 112 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:19,410 want to give to people right I mean I 113 00:04:23,450 --> 00:04:21,450 think in a lot of cases I think I think 114 00:04:25,340 --> 00:04:23,460 you take the example of Mariah Carey I 115 00:04:26,810 --> 00:04:25,350 understand why she lip-synchs because 116 00:04:27,860 --> 00:04:26,820 when she showed up to the Rockefeller 117 00:04:30,950 --> 00:04:27,870 tree lightings 118 00:04:33,620 --> 00:04:30,960 in 2014 or 15 and she was out of breath 119 00:04:36,110 --> 00:04:33,630 and she was singing in the cold that was 120 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:36,120 a huge scandal that was headlines Mariah 121 00:04:39,050 --> 00:04:37,770 Carey can't sing anymore she would have 122 00:04:41,450 --> 00:04:39,060 been better off if she lip synched 123 00:04:42,890 --> 00:04:41,460 because then you know that would have 124 00:04:44,390 --> 00:04:42,900 been a thing that people talked about on 125 00:04:47,870 --> 00:04:44,400 Twitter and then it was gone away 126 00:04:50,030 --> 00:04:47,880 instead of threatening her legacy so I 127 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:50,040 certainly understand why people do it 128 00:04:54,590 --> 00:04:52,290 but I agree there is a certain type of 129 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:54,600 performer where it's surprising because 130 00:04:57,710 --> 00:04:56,250 you really are signing up to hear them 131 00:04:59,629 --> 00:04:57,720 sing live as opposed to a more 132 00:05:02,060 --> 00:04:59,639 pop-oriented act where you're signing up 133 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:02,070 for more of the performance immersive 134 00:05:05,090 --> 00:05:03,930 experience but I think we should draw a 135 00:05:07,610 --> 00:05:05,100 distinction between television 136 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:07,620 performances and live concerts in my 137 00:05:12,129 --> 00:05:09,690 mind there's a distinction for a couple 138 00:05:14,900 --> 00:05:12,139 of reasons one we have a history of 139 00:05:16,310 --> 00:05:14,910 lip-syncing on TV I'm not sure why they 140 00:05:19,070 --> 00:05:16,320 started that way but American Bandstand 141 00:05:20,750 --> 00:05:19,080 and those type of shows it was always 142 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:20,760 lip-synching people always kind of knew 143 00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:22,530 it you would hear the song fade out at 144 00:05:28,129 --> 00:05:25,110 the end right so you might understand 145 00:05:29,779 --> 00:05:28,139 that the reason why is just cheaper it's 146 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:29,789 a lot easier just to play the track 147 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:33,450 instead of to my cab and for example so 148 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:35,910 that I couldn't find like anybody 149 00:05:39,469 --> 00:05:37,650 specifically saying this is why we did 150 00:05:40,940 --> 00:05:39,479 it but when I looked up American 151 00:05:43,570 --> 00:05:40,950 Bandstand in Soul Train it was people 152 00:05:46,219 --> 00:05:43,580 sort of like talking around that issue 153 00:05:48,469 --> 00:05:46,229 so yeah so I agree that it's it's 154 00:05:51,050 --> 00:05:48,479 written into sort of like the DNA of 155 00:05:53,659 --> 00:05:51,060 televised performance right and it's 156 00:05:57,140 --> 00:05:53,669 free television so somebody can only 157 00:05:59,659 --> 00:05:57,150 complain so much about it right but when 158 00:06:01,810 --> 00:05:59,669 we're talking about paying money for a 159 00:06:04,159 --> 00:06:01,820 concert ticket to hear somebody live 160 00:06:05,300 --> 00:06:04,169 that seems to me to be a totally 161 00:06:08,210 --> 00:06:05,310 different story 162 00:06:09,740 --> 00:06:08,220 and I think that let's talk about this 163 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:09,750 New Hampshire law that passed that your 164 00:06:14,180 --> 00:06:11,849 reference in your article that they 165 00:06:16,089 --> 00:06:14,190 perhaps struck a nice balance I'm not 166 00:06:19,310 --> 00:06:16,099 gonna say it's illegal it's just 167 00:06:20,510 --> 00:06:19,320 disclose it tell me tell me what you 168 00:06:23,029 --> 00:06:20,520 don't know about that New Hampshire law 169 00:06:25,310 --> 00:06:23,039 so as far as I could tell and I tried 170 00:06:27,890 --> 00:06:25,320 contacting many people to find out if 171 00:06:31,159 --> 00:06:27,900 this law had actually if anybody had 172 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:31,169 been prosecuted under this law and it 173 00:06:34,939 --> 00:06:33,210 seems that they have input the law which 174 00:06:36,980 --> 00:06:34,949 originated in the early 90s around the 175 00:06:38,690 --> 00:06:36,990 time of a bunch of similar laws in 176 00:06:41,650 --> 00:06:38,700 states or similar bills and states 177 00:06:44,410 --> 00:06:41,660 so-called milli vanilli bills was 178 00:06:47,950 --> 00:06:44,420 that a concert promoter could be fined 179 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:47,960 if he or she was found promoting a show 180 00:06:54,610 --> 00:06:50,090 that he or she knew about what he would 181 00:06:56,260 --> 00:06:54,620 be lip-synched the entire time and did 182 00:06:58,690 --> 00:06:56,270 not disclose that ahead of time so 183 00:07:00,130 --> 00:06:58,700 there's a lot of conditions in there 184 00:07:02,260 --> 00:07:00,140 right you could see why that would be 185 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:02,270 hard to prosecute the first being it's 186 00:07:05,380 --> 00:07:03,650 hard to tell what somebody would know 187 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:05,390 the second being it's very rare that 188 00:07:09,580 --> 00:07:08,090 somebody lip-synchs an entire show a lot 189 00:07:11,590 --> 00:07:09,590 of people do it here and there they'll 190 00:07:13,930 --> 00:07:11,600 do a song they'll even indicates Mariah 191 00:07:16,180 --> 00:07:13,940 Carey just based on my own observations 192 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:16,190 do a line or so third she does like a 193 00:07:19,990 --> 00:07:18,050 very tasteful sort of lip-syncing at 194 00:07:21,550 --> 00:07:20,000 this point it's very rare that you'd 195 00:07:24,940 --> 00:07:21,560 find an entire concert except in the 196 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:24,950 case of Britney Spears who pretty from 197 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:27,650 pretty pretty credible reporting which 198 00:07:32,430 --> 00:07:29,810 suggests has lip-sync to all shows so 199 00:07:35,860 --> 00:07:32,440 yeah so is it attempt to put to make 200 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:35,870 lip-syncing big the lack of disclosure 201 00:07:39,970 --> 00:07:37,850 of the lip-syncing a certain crime yeah 202 00:07:43,390 --> 00:07:39,980 because in the in the ladies in early 203 00:07:45,700 --> 00:07:43,400 90s it was kind of a new phenomenon that 204 00:07:47,530 --> 00:07:45,710 a bunch of acts were lip-synching at 205 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:47,540 their shows people like Madonna and 206 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:49,730 Janet Jackson so the couple problems 207 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:52,310 with that law is that for whatever 208 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:54,890 reason it said the entire show the 209 00:07:59,409 --> 00:07:56,930 entire shows so that got watered down 210 00:08:01,510 --> 00:07:59,419 big-time and then number two the fines 211 00:08:02,710 --> 00:08:01,520 really aren't that substantial I think 212 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:02,720 it's not a thousand dollars if you're a 213 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:04,490 company one thousand if you're an 214 00:08:07,630 --> 00:08:06,290 individual so Mariah pays a thousand and 215 00:08:13,060 --> 00:08:07,640 the promoter pays ten and you're off the 216 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:13,070 hook yeah yeah yeah the promoter ticket 217 00:08:16,659 --> 00:08:14,690 agent and then you could face steep 218 00:08:18,610 --> 00:08:16,669 fines so so I don't think I don't think 219 00:08:20,830 --> 00:08:18,620 the artist at all was implicated I think 220 00:08:22,750 --> 00:08:20,840 it depends on whether the the promoter 221 00:08:24,430 --> 00:08:22,760 is a company or an individual basically 222 00:08:25,900 --> 00:08:24,440 I think that was and it was a thousand 223 00:08:28,150 --> 00:08:25,910 for an individual or 20,000 for 224 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:28,160 companies so yeah it's not like a huge 225 00:08:32,469 --> 00:08:30,410 huge loss given the scale of these 226 00:08:34,719 --> 00:08:32,479 things but yeah yes it seems to me we 227 00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:34,729 just got to get one other state that 228 00:08:38,950 --> 00:08:36,710 would pass a law like that but but pass 229 00:08:41,529 --> 00:08:38,960 it with with the proper teeth to it 230 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:41,539 because I think about this way they're 231 00:08:44,950 --> 00:08:43,490 gonna tour around the u.s. if they're 232 00:08:48,250 --> 00:08:44,960 gonna play in the particular state that 233 00:08:50,380 --> 00:08:48,260 has that law we're all gonna know all 234 00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:50,390 right your lip synching right because in 235 00:08:53,590 --> 00:08:52,310 that state either they're gonna be 236 00:08:54,820 --> 00:08:53,600 willing to pay the fine but the fine 237 00:08:55,390 --> 00:08:54,830 should be high enough that they are not 238 00:08:56,769 --> 00:08:55,400 willing to pay 239 00:08:59,500 --> 00:08:56,779 so instead they're gonna have to put a 240 00:09:01,900 --> 00:08:59,510 disclosure on the ticket that portions 241 00:09:02,950 --> 00:09:01,910 of this show are pre-recorded or 242 00:09:05,140 --> 00:09:02,960 portions of these vocals are 243 00:09:07,300 --> 00:09:05,150 pre-recorded so as long as it's in one 244 00:09:09,190 --> 00:09:07,310 state that has a venue that people have 245 00:09:12,070 --> 00:09:09,200 to play out so if we're talking Florida 246 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:12,080 New York California Illinois you know a 247 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:13,970 handful of states if any one of those 248 00:09:20,260 --> 00:09:16,010 states were to pass this everybody would 249 00:09:21,579 --> 00:09:20,270 be smoked out right but from what I 250 00:09:23,860 --> 00:09:21,589 could tell like nobody has actually 251 00:09:25,420 --> 00:09:23,870 followed this Ticketmaster really didn't 252 00:09:27,010 --> 00:09:25,430 seem to have any idea that I was talking 253 00:09:30,850 --> 00:09:27,020 about I asked them I reached out to 254 00:09:33,820 --> 00:09:30,860 various arenas in New Hampshire so it 255 00:09:36,310 --> 00:09:33,830 just seems kind of like a dead law that 256 00:09:39,579 --> 00:09:36,320 was passed and then but but also I can't 257 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:39,589 imagine this being actually a thing in 258 00:09:42,610 --> 00:09:41,210 any other state because people just 259 00:09:46,660 --> 00:09:42,620 don't care that much anymore 260 00:09:48,310 --> 00:09:46,670 well people here or not I mean it hasn't 261 00:09:51,550 --> 00:09:48,320 been in the news because we haven't had 262 00:09:54,790 --> 00:09:51,560 some front page issue regarding it but 263 00:09:58,180 --> 00:09:54,800 you know when I talk to people I would 264 00:10:00,010 --> 00:09:58,190 say four out of five people care I get 265 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:00,020 one out of five the kind of says come on 266 00:10:04,510 --> 00:10:01,970 Jim everybody knows that it's going on 267 00:10:06,699 --> 00:10:04,520 and you know I'd rather hear you know 268 00:10:09,490 --> 00:10:06,709 them sound better anyway then you know 269 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:09,500 here the the real vocal but most people 270 00:10:14,380 --> 00:10:10,010 I talk to 271 00:10:17,260 --> 00:10:14,390 who are avid concert goers as I am no no 272 00:10:19,090 --> 00:10:17,270 there be very upset to know that the 273 00:10:21,340 --> 00:10:19,100 performance is being lip synced they are 274 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:21,350 paying money to see that person sing 275 00:10:26,140 --> 00:10:23,330 live regardless of how well they're 276 00:10:29,940 --> 00:10:26,150 singing well but the thing is that is 277 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:29,950 that this has become more and more of 278 00:10:35,860 --> 00:10:34,010 the used practice over time so they 279 00:10:37,780 --> 00:10:35,870 didn't like hurt a lot of careers that 280 00:10:40,329 --> 00:10:37,790 were affected by even Janet Jackson 281 00:10:41,949 --> 00:10:40,339 who's Rhythm Nation 1814 tour was about 282 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:41,959 the first time that people really 283 00:10:44,110 --> 00:10:43,370 started talking about it in the 284 00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:44,120 mainstream 285 00:10:48,610 --> 00:10:45,529 I mean Janet Jackson went on to 286 00:10:50,980 --> 00:10:48,620 phenomenal success after that so I I 287 00:10:52,810 --> 00:10:50,990 think like some people I guess I guess 288 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:52,820 it matters to some people but to what 289 00:10:58,750 --> 00:10:55,850 degree isn't quite enough I think to 290 00:11:01,990 --> 00:10:58,760 cause the sensation at once did I mean 291 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:02,000 somebody will go again differentiating 292 00:11:08,740 --> 00:11:06,050 between you know concert live concert 293 00:11:09,180 --> 00:11:08,750 and TV but but you see the way that it 294 00:11:11,550 --> 00:11:09,190 plays 295 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:11,560 on TV today on Twitter and like at an 296 00:11:16,290 --> 00:11:13,930 awards show some people I carry another 297 00:11:20,189 --> 00:11:16,300 example when she played at the American 298 00:11:22,939 --> 00:11:20,199 Music Awards most recently for the 299 00:11:26,490 --> 00:11:22,949 Billboard Awards whatever most recent 300 00:11:27,449 --> 00:11:26,500 show there was she lip-sync people 301 00:11:29,850 --> 00:11:27,459 talking about her on Twitter and then 302 00:11:31,980 --> 00:11:29,860 that was that you know some of the shows 303 00:11:33,150 --> 00:11:31,990 have called out apparently a requirement 304 00:11:35,550 --> 00:11:33,160 that you sing alive I believe the 305 00:11:38,759 --> 00:11:35,560 Grammys right now are requiring live 306 00:11:40,889 --> 00:11:38,769 singing I just watched go ahead 307 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:40,899 I think the Grammys used to be that but 308 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:42,730 certainly the Grammys have been hosted 309 00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:44,110 lip-synching but the Chris Brown 310 00:11:49,710 --> 00:11:47,529 performance a few years ago of God what 311 00:11:52,889 --> 00:11:49,720 Chris Brown's one of Chris Brown's 312 00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:52,899 forgettable dance tracks I was clearly 313 00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:54,639 lip sync I mean it was just the Oliver's 314 00:11:56,819 --> 00:11:56,350 you could hear and the Grammys let that 315 00:11:58,860 --> 00:11:56,829 happen 316 00:12:00,179 --> 00:11:58,870 yeah well maybe it was in response to 317 00:12:02,220 --> 00:12:00,189 that cuz I I thought that they've got 318 00:12:04,499 --> 00:12:02,230 that rule in place now maybe not then to 319 00:12:06,569 --> 00:12:04,509 see amazed I just watched this week they 320 00:12:08,850 --> 00:12:06,579 appeared to be live performances but you 321 00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:08,860 know there was the Garth Brooks lip-sync 322 00:12:15,449 --> 00:12:11,920 last year you familiar with that No so 323 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:15,459 so last year Garth Brooks wins performer 324 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:17,050 Entertainer of the Year the the the 325 00:12:20,610 --> 00:12:18,610 point of the award is the guy who had 326 00:12:24,329 --> 00:12:20,620 the the best live shows the best live 327 00:12:26,670 --> 00:12:24,339 performer and here he gets on the night 328 00:12:27,929 --> 00:12:26,680 he wins that award and he lipsticks on 329 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:27,939 the CMAs 330 00:12:32,879 --> 00:12:30,850 and my guy who I love Eric Church who's 331 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:32,889 known for being an incredible I perform 332 00:12:38,220 --> 00:12:35,250 and like literally puts on for our shows 333 00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:38,230 he calls him out he calls out Garth 334 00:12:42,210 --> 00:12:39,910 really yeah he called him out for 335 00:12:44,460 --> 00:12:42,220 lip-syncing and gar said hey you know I 336 00:12:45,870 --> 00:12:44,470 just performed the two prior nights and 337 00:12:48,210 --> 00:12:45,880 I was performing in the next night I 338 00:12:50,699 --> 00:12:48,220 just had to protect my voice and church 339 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:50,709 is kind of like BS dude I'm going for 340 00:12:56,340 --> 00:12:52,930 hours a night every other night and I'm 341 00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:56,350 singing every note live Wow so in that's 342 00:12:59,460 --> 00:12:58,000 kind of another point is that frankly 343 00:13:02,040 --> 00:12:59,470 when we talk about who's concerned about 344 00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:02,050 this some of the major concern comes 345 00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:04,600 from musicians themselves musicians that 346 00:13:09,869 --> 00:13:06,639 are purists and they're like hey we're 347 00:13:11,369 --> 00:13:09,879 going out there we're doing it and we 348 00:13:13,290 --> 00:13:11,379 don't like these fakers out there 349 00:13:15,299 --> 00:13:13,300 because it calls into question what 350 00:13:17,220 --> 00:13:15,309 we're doing we if I'm going on busting 351 00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:17,230 my ass every night given a three-hour 352 00:13:21,299 --> 00:13:19,120 performance I don't want people in the 353 00:13:22,199 --> 00:13:21,309 audience questioning whether or not I'm 354 00:13:23,050 --> 00:13:22,209 singing live or not 355 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:23,060 but right now 356 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:26,970 r-right well I mean you know I think 357 00:13:31,970 --> 00:13:29,130 that the untangling sort of the 358 00:13:35,449 --> 00:13:31,980 authenticity from pop music has always 359 00:13:41,329 --> 00:13:35,459 been an active process for the audience 360 00:13:43,579 --> 00:13:41,339 so you know I mean just what what ours 361 00:13:45,139 --> 00:13:43,589 does have to do with any others I don't 362 00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:45,149 know I mean that's that seems a little 363 00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:49,440 bit overly sensitive to me you know 364 00:13:53,569 --> 00:13:51,360 there's artifice all over the place you 365 00:13:54,829 --> 00:13:53,579 know the you take music and you package 366 00:13:57,530 --> 00:13:54,839 it and automatically it becomes a 367 00:14:00,350 --> 00:13:57,540 product as much as it is or more than it 368 00:14:05,090 --> 00:14:00,360 is art so you can make a lot of you know 369 00:14:07,220 --> 00:14:05,100 sort of arguments for ends yeah but yeah 370 00:14:09,740 --> 00:14:07,230 bottom line look it not everybody agrees 371 00:14:11,930 --> 00:14:09,750 on this but if you have as little as 372 00:14:15,290 --> 00:14:11,940 half of the people at the concert who 373 00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:15,300 care that to me is enough to say that it 374 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:17,519 should be disclosed so those people can 375 00:14:21,860 --> 00:14:19,050 make their own decision and I just don't 376 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:21,870 see what is the downside of requiring a 377 00:14:24,889 --> 00:14:23,610 simple statement on the back of a ticket 378 00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:24,899 or the front of the ticket or whatever 379 00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:27,510 that requires them to say that portions 380 00:14:31,610 --> 00:14:30,089 are pre-recorded well I mean I think to 381 00:14:34,460 --> 00:14:31,620 your point it is a little bit silly 382 00:14:36,590 --> 00:14:34,470 though at this point like people you 383 00:14:38,689 --> 00:14:36,600 know don't talk about it or that when 384 00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:38,699 Elton John called out McDonough I think 385 00:14:45,139 --> 00:14:41,910 in the early 2000s for lip-syncing 386 00:14:46,970 --> 00:14:45,149 her her publicist Liz Rosenberg issued a 387 00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:46,980 statement that said Madonna never lips 388 00:14:50,059 --> 00:14:48,750 saying she seasons everything was the 389 00:14:51,980 --> 00:14:50,069 reinvention sorcerer's on she sings 390 00:14:53,780 --> 00:14:51,990 every note of this tour which wasn't 391 00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:53,790 true I mean the the vogue that she 392 00:14:59,629 --> 00:14:57,120 usually up until just one or two tours 393 00:15:01,550 --> 00:14:59,639 ago she always lip-sync folk cuz it's 394 00:15:03,170 --> 00:15:01,560 hard it's like a weird sharp song it's 395 00:15:05,689 --> 00:15:03,180 just a hard song to sing also it's an 396 00:15:07,699 --> 00:15:05,699 incredibly ornate dance number whatever 397 00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:07,709 she performs it and you could hear I 398 00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:09,180 mean I went through and I listened to a 399 00:15:14,269 --> 00:15:12,510 bunch of different different cities 400 00:15:15,470 --> 00:15:14,279 versions of folks on the same vocal 401 00:15:16,670 --> 00:15:15,480 inflection you can tell when you're 402 00:15:18,139 --> 00:15:16,680 hearing a track even if the track is 403 00:15:20,809 --> 00:15:18,149 different than the album person you just 404 00:15:22,490 --> 00:15:20,819 your ear trains to it so it is it is 405 00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:22,500 quite strange that people aren't more 406 00:15:27,470 --> 00:15:24,600 straightforward about this one it is 407 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:27,480 common practice so well and they're 408 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:29,490 bordering on committing a fraud then I 409 00:15:32,689 --> 00:15:31,410 mean arguably they're committing a fraud 410 00:15:34,819 --> 00:15:32,699 by standing up there with a microphone 411 00:15:36,620 --> 00:15:34,829 to their mouth pretending to sing 412 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:36,630 arguably that in is inherent 413 00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:38,250 fraudulent but then when you're flat out 414 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:40,710 saying by the way I'm not lip-synching 415 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:43,050 great I'm singing 100% live and that's 416 00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:43,770 not true 417 00:15:49,070 --> 00:15:45,360 now you're talking about potential court 418 00:15:51,530 --> 00:15:49,080 action able to see much in the way of 419 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:51,540 court actions no not really I mean I 420 00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:53,610 don't even think milli vanilli risk that 421 00:15:59,300 --> 00:15:57,600 at the time I guess I guess the most so 422 00:16:00,860 --> 00:15:59,310 Martha wash was probably the most 423 00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:00,870 successful and I don't even think that 424 00:16:06,860 --> 00:16:03,680 went to court Martha wash is like a 425 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:06,870 classic disco singer was part of the 426 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:08,970 weather girls saying with the iconic 427 00:16:14,510 --> 00:16:11,970 drag queen Sylvester and so then in the 428 00:16:15,950 --> 00:16:14,520 late 90s this is the 10 years after she 429 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:15,960 had sort of made her mark she has this 430 00:16:20,650 --> 00:16:18,450 totally singular soprano voice if you've 431 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:20,660 heard Martha wash you know Martha wash 432 00:16:25,820 --> 00:16:23,490 this this Italian dance act black box 433 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:25,830 records an entire record with Martha 434 00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:29,610 wash and gives her absolutely no credit 435 00:16:33,650 --> 00:16:31,710 they have a model a French skinny model 436 00:16:37,820 --> 00:16:33,660 I should mention that or the wash is 437 00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:37,830 large and older and just sort of like 438 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:40,470 not even even in the late 80s which were 439 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:42,450 a lot more forgiving in terms of what we 440 00:16:46,610 --> 00:16:45,210 accept from our pop stars image wise she 441 00:16:50,390 --> 00:16:46,620 just didn't fit the mold that they were 442 00:16:52,340 --> 00:16:50,400 looking for so she she did file a 443 00:16:54,950 --> 00:16:52,350 lawsuit and then C&C Music Factory did 444 00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:54,960 very similar thing to her so he was able 445 00:16:58,850 --> 00:16:56,910 to file a lawsuit and then RCA which had 446 00:17:01,040 --> 00:16:58,860 signed black box ended up giving her a 447 00:17:03,860 --> 00:17:01,050 record deal so she was able to release 448 00:17:06,170 --> 00:17:03,870 her own solo records I think that that's 449 00:17:08,420 --> 00:17:06,180 and I guess like there was also Milli 450 00:17:10,610 --> 00:17:08,430 Vanilli fans who bought the CD roll out 451 00:17:12,860 --> 00:17:10,620 just send their CDs backing it something 452 00:17:15,710 --> 00:17:12,870 of a refund like three bucks but I don't 453 00:17:17,929 --> 00:17:15,720 think that there's been actual like not 454 00:17:20,750 --> 00:17:17,939 in my research that I ever find any 455 00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,760 really large-scale court cases yeah well 456 00:17:24,530 --> 00:17:22,319 III don't think we will complain about 457 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:24,540 I've done some some research myself on 458 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:26,970 on it and yes it was a class action 459 00:17:32,420 --> 00:17:30,330 against Milli Vanilli but the award was 460 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:32,430 minimal it was like holler if you bought 461 00:17:36,140 --> 00:17:34,170 a CD and it was a couple bucks if you 462 00:17:37,820 --> 00:17:36,150 had gone to the concert now that adds up 463 00:17:39,620 --> 00:17:37,830 for a lot of total dollars so it's good 464 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:39,630 for the lawyers but as far as the people 465 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:42,570 it really made little and then I've 466 00:17:46,820 --> 00:17:45,090 spoken to some lawyers about the 467 00:17:48,530 --> 00:17:46,830 possibility of you know could there be a 468 00:17:50,030 --> 00:17:48,540 class action lawsuit against say a 469 00:17:52,250 --> 00:17:50,040 Justin Bieber 470 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:52,260 who seem to be busted pretty red 471 00:17:59,300 --> 00:17:55,890 handedly in India lip-synching as well 472 00:18:01,010 --> 00:17:59,310 as I'm sure the US and you know they 473 00:18:02,540 --> 00:18:01,020 thought that it's probably a pretty 474 00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:02,550 strong case they were very concerned 475 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:04,440 though about hey if this is so well 476 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:07,410 known one argument the performer may 477 00:18:12,980 --> 00:18:10,050 make is that people already know this 478 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:12,990 you know it is so much in the news about 479 00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:15,510 thinking and so on so you have to prove 480 00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:18,030 that people really were defrauded out of 481 00:18:21,890 --> 00:18:19,200 their money that they went to it 482 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:21,900 expecting live singing well if you've 483 00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:23,250 got all kinds of news articles about 484 00:18:28,370 --> 00:18:25,860 Mariah Carey or Madonna or Justin Bieber 485 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:28,380 lip-syncing well arguably people are 486 00:18:32,450 --> 00:18:30,810 already on notice when they went I don't 487 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:32,460 particularly buy that argument because I 488 00:18:35,690 --> 00:18:34,050 think that may only apply to a portion 489 00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:35,700 of the audience but they were concerned 490 00:18:39,410 --> 00:18:37,140 about that and then they were also 491 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:39,420 concerned about bottom line proving it 492 00:18:43,220 --> 00:18:40,530 they were saying hey you got to have 493 00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:43,230 somebody on the sound board right that 494 00:18:47,810 --> 00:18:45,300 will testify right I mean like I can go 495 00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:47,820 to a show and I can write and be 496 00:18:52,820 --> 00:18:50,400 reasonably certain that what I've heard 497 00:18:54,530 --> 00:18:52,830 was lip-synching but but when a push 498 00:18:56,990 --> 00:18:54,540 comes to shove I don't actually have the 499 00:18:59,720 --> 00:18:57,000 proof like perhaps this person is 500 00:19:01,820 --> 00:18:59,730 recreating note for note what their 501 00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:01,830 album sounds like they're not but 502 00:19:06,410 --> 00:19:04,620 perhaps that's possible so yeah it's all 503 00:19:07,670 --> 00:19:06,420 based on hunches but I would argue in 504 00:19:08,690 --> 00:19:07,680 the case of Justin Bieber that if you 505 00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:08,700 look at his audience which is mostly 506 00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:10,320 young people I mean they've grown up 507 00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:12,710 they were born after this wave of 508 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:14,910 lip-synching scandals in the early 90s 509 00:19:18,860 --> 00:19:16,770 they're used to it it's only gotten more 510 00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:18,870 normalized over the years and I think 511 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:20,910 that they probably care less unless you 512 00:19:25,850 --> 00:19:23,250 know than we did it's just not shocking 513 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:25,860 because it's been in the atmosphere the 514 00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:28,770 entire time I'd love to do I'd love to 515 00:19:32,660 --> 00:19:30,240 do a poll on it'd be interesting to see 516 00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:32,670 a poll on that but yeah the other issue 517 00:19:38,570 --> 00:19:35,550 you may have is that G do Justin Bieber 518 00:19:42,050 --> 00:19:38,580 fans want to sue their the guy they love 519 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:42,060 do they know yeah right yeah I mean I 520 00:19:45,170 --> 00:19:43,890 think I think for a lot of people 521 00:19:47,660 --> 00:19:45,180 especially the way that celebrities are 522 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:47,670 today just being in that room with them 523 00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:49,410 is enough it doesn't really matter and 524 00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:50,880 and you know if you take the case with 525 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:52,950 the new kids on the block who were part 526 00:19:58,250 --> 00:19:55,290 of this a lot of accusations you know 527 00:20:01,070 --> 00:19:58,260 they had stopped their tour and about 92 528 00:20:03,170 --> 00:20:01,080 or 93 to go fly across the world they 529 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:03,180 were in Australia to appear on Arsenio 530 00:20:05,150 --> 00:20:03,570 Hall 531 00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:05,160 all to refute these rumors that they had 532 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:06,990 been lip-synching but their fans were 533 00:20:11,180 --> 00:20:09,690 unwavering I mean throughout all of this 534 00:20:13,490 --> 00:20:11,190 this has been happening for years and 535 00:20:14,990 --> 00:20:13,500 years and years I mean there's a Boston 536 00:20:16,940 --> 00:20:15,000 Globe article it's crazy to read it 537 00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:16,950 Donnie Wahlberg flatly denies that he 538 00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:18,360 ever lip-synchs and then in a 539 00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:20,310 parenthetical in the next paragraph it's 540 00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:22,350 like his manager admits that sometimes 541 00:20:26,450 --> 00:20:24,150 they do lip sync you know during dance 542 00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:26,460 intensive numbers nobody I mean they 543 00:20:30,650 --> 00:20:28,230 didn't lose fans over that you know so 544 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:30,660 so I think like when you get to the hero 545 00:20:36,770 --> 00:20:34,490 worship thing is it's a very odd sort of 546 00:20:38,990 --> 00:20:36,780 formula of what people are willing to 547 00:20:41,390 --> 00:20:39,000 accept and not but there is some degree 548 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:41,400 of like your you need to do what you 549 00:20:44,060 --> 00:20:43,530 need to do to be you so we will forgive 550 00:20:47,660 --> 00:20:44,070 you for that 551 00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:47,670 it's I love Lady Gaga and Celine Dion 552 00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:50,760 and I'm having a tough time ending my my 553 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:54,240 love affair with them getting busted let 554 00:21:00,140 --> 00:20:56,250 me ask you this what do you know about 555 00:21:03,050 --> 00:21:00,150 the technology behind it not very much 556 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:03,060 you know I didn't you know if if I were 557 00:21:06,530 --> 00:21:04,410 to write something longer and this was 558 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:06,540 very long I mean I basically just did my 559 00:21:10,820 --> 00:21:08,850 pieces of research project looking at 560 00:21:13,550 --> 00:21:10,830 sort of like the scandals in the way it 561 00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:13,560 had been reported but I think that 562 00:21:17,450 --> 00:21:15,600 there's definitely work to do in terms 563 00:21:20,660 --> 00:21:17,460 of talking to sound engineers and how it 564 00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:20,670 actually works I I don't know 565 00:21:26,930 --> 00:21:23,280 you know I saw Mariah many times in 566 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:26,940 Vegas this summer and it seemed to me 567 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:30,890 like she was able to kind of switch into 568 00:21:36,260 --> 00:21:34,050 singing a line on the fly that's I like 569 00:21:38,210 --> 00:21:36,270 I have no proof of this at all but it 570 00:21:40,250 --> 00:21:38,220 seemed like sometimes she would go for a 571 00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:40,260 note and then and and wouldn't quite get 572 00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:41,760 there but immediately it would come in 573 00:21:46,670 --> 00:21:43,710 so it's somebody like listening hard or 574 00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:46,680 she has a button or something I don't 575 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:48,510 know because because given the way that 576 00:21:55,670 --> 00:21:51,330 she does lip-sync in my perception which 577 00:21:58,130 --> 00:21:55,680 is one line here flourish there it would 578 00:22:00,110 --> 00:21:58,140 be really hard I think to remember that 579 00:22:01,820 --> 00:22:00,120 like okay these are the three lines I 580 00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:01,830 sing and now here's the one line I don't 581 00:22:06,110 --> 00:22:04,080 sing I you know this is her job perhaps 582 00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:06,120 she does do that but it also seems like 583 00:22:10,730 --> 00:22:08,190 maybe there is some degree of being able 584 00:22:12,740 --> 00:22:10,740 to kind of lip-sync when you need it you 585 00:22:14,990 --> 00:22:12,750 know I don't know I think you're right 586 00:22:16,670 --> 00:22:15,000 that's why I did wanna we are gonna try 587 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:16,680 and dig into the technology behind it 588 00:22:20,090 --> 00:22:17,250 but my aunt 589 00:22:21,770 --> 00:22:20,100 standing is and but I want to confirm 590 00:22:23,420 --> 00:22:21,780 this is that you could have a backing 591 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:23,430 vocal track but you can still sing over 592 00:22:27,290 --> 00:22:25,170 that both the backing vocal track and if 593 00:22:29,090 --> 00:22:27,300 you sing over it your voice is going to 594 00:22:30,980 --> 00:22:29,100 defeat the backing track so that's how 595 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:30,990 she's able to very easily slip in and 596 00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:33,210 out of it yes yeah and well there's 597 00:22:36,110 --> 00:22:34,830 definitely a lot of that sort of and you 598 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:36,120 can tell when somebody's got a backing 599 00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:38,010 track too I mean you'll just hear a lot 600 00:22:42,290 --> 00:22:40,110 of voices so you certainly hear quite a 601 00:22:44,690 --> 00:22:42,300 bit of that but you could have a backing 602 00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:44,700 background vocal track or you could have 603 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:47,520 a backing lead vocal track right right 604 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:49,050 and so I'm I'm saying that I think 605 00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:51,330 Mariah Carey probably has a backing lead 606 00:22:56,060 --> 00:22:53,580 vocal track and she can choose to 607 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:56,070 lip-sync the entire concert or she can 608 00:22:59,630 --> 00:22:57,570 sing as much or as little as she wants 609 00:23:01,190 --> 00:22:59,640 right she sings you're gonna hear her 610 00:23:04,130 --> 00:23:01,200 when she's not singing you're gonna hear 611 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:04,140 the backing track yes yes and you'll 612 00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:06,090 hear that live mic and they'll shout out 613 00:23:10,850 --> 00:23:08,640 you know I saw JLo in Vegas recently oh 614 00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:10,860 yeah she's giving a lot of come on 615 00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:13,230 everybody come on come on you know so 616 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:15,480 that part's live but the actual singing 617 00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:18,450 is not how much how much of that show 618 00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:25,100 probably three-quarters of it would have 619 00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:27,390 been now she's gonna come up with the 620 00:23:32,510 --> 00:23:30,720 excuse that oh there's all this dancing 621 00:23:35,390 --> 00:23:32,520 with all this dancing and my edges well 622 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:35,400 then during the singing parts don't 623 00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:37,770 dance dancing between the singing parts 624 00:23:41,690 --> 00:23:39,600 you could have extended portions where 625 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:41,700 you do your dancing then go back to this 626 00:23:46,730 --> 00:23:44,970 thing or what I also like is backup 627 00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:46,740 singers I've got no problem with backup 628 00:23:50,060 --> 00:23:48,510 singers to help support your voice they 629 00:23:51,890 --> 00:23:50,070 have made backup singers as long as 630 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:51,900 they're up there singing live I'm cool 631 00:23:56,420 --> 00:23:54,210 with that yeah Mariah does a lot of that 632 00:23:58,550 --> 00:23:56,430 too I mean the course will come in the 633 00:24:00,140 --> 00:23:58,560 course the the choir the the you know 634 00:24:02,330 --> 00:24:00,150 the the handful of backing up that she 635 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:02,340 has in to help her with heavy lifting on 636 00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:04,170 some of them like a really tough notes 637 00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:06,510 you'll hear that but you know Jennifer 638 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:10,470 Jennifer Lopez I would just expect to go 639 00:24:16,250 --> 00:24:12,510 see a show for lips I mean that seems to 640 00:24:18,140 --> 00:24:16,260 me like basic theater you know III mean 641 00:24:21,140 --> 00:24:18,150 and it seems to me too that like 642 00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:21,150 nobody's really seeing JLo just to hear 643 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:23,520 her sing you know in fact that might be 644 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:26,370 hard to sit through an entirely live JLo 645 00:24:29,660 --> 00:24:28,650 performance like yeah what's amazing to 646 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:29,670 me is you go back 647 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:33,090 some even if you watch truth or dare and 648 00:24:38,090 --> 00:24:36,090 she's singing like Oh father and lived 649 00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:38,100 to tell and it's just like this is a 650 00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:40,470 case for lip-synching like she can sound 651 00:24:46,340 --> 00:24:42,780 brutal after a certain point she's 652 00:24:47,660 --> 00:24:46,350 gotten better with her control but there 653 00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:47,670 are there are people that I'd really 654 00:24:53,270 --> 00:24:51,360 rather hear live well or give or some 655 00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:53,280 backup singers how expensive could these 656 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:55,260 backup singers be there's a I mean look 657 00:24:59,060 --> 00:24:56,850 at all these talent shows we have out 658 00:25:00,620 --> 00:24:59,070 there with all these great singers throw 659 00:25:01,340 --> 00:25:00,630 three of them on stage behind it but 660 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:01,350 you'll be fine 661 00:25:05,630 --> 00:25:03,570 see I mean she I - backup singers own 662 00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:05,640 that source I think she maybe need like 663 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:07,710 turn down her mic a little bit and turn 664 00:25:11,630 --> 00:25:09,690 up the mic of the of the backup singers 665 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:11,640 yeah what what about this one I'm 666 00:25:17,210 --> 00:25:14,330 concerned I go to a lot of musicals and 667 00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:17,220 what about Broadway a being ya know 668 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:19,260 they're wearing just a little piece here 669 00:25:23,570 --> 00:25:21,330 in front of their face so so that they 670 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:23,580 can move around and so on those are 671 00:25:29,540 --> 00:25:26,610 supposed to be live music orchestras and 672 00:25:32,570 --> 00:25:29,550 front and live singing but I wonder can 673 00:25:34,790 --> 00:25:32,580 we trust those I think so 674 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:34,800 I think there'd be more of an outrage 675 00:25:38,660 --> 00:25:36,690 with Broadway just because just because 676 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:38,670 of expectations I think I mean I don't 677 00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:41,510 know much about Broadway what goes on 678 00:25:48,740 --> 00:25:44,910 but you know I did I did right after the 679 00:25:50,540 --> 00:25:48,750 publishing of this piece I did a serious 680 00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:50,550 show that included like a Broadway 681 00:25:55,250 --> 00:25:54,030 expert and from what I recall hardline 682 00:25:57,050 --> 00:25:55,260 was like this is not something that 683 00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:57,060 happens on Broadway and in fact because 684 00:26:00,350 --> 00:25:58,320 this doesn't happen on Broadway it 685 00:26:02,750 --> 00:26:00,360 shouldn't be happening on stage that was 686 00:26:04,220 --> 00:26:02,760 that's seem to be her position in any 687 00:26:07,570 --> 00:26:04,230 context that like it's a matter of 688 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:07,580 technique and stuff and you know and 689 00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:10,290 that's that's a good case I think for 690 00:26:13,970 --> 00:26:12,000 not lip-synching because that is also 691 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:13,980 singing and dancing the entire time and 692 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:15,450 acting you know it's it's a way to 693 00:26:19,460 --> 00:26:17,250 completely wear yourself out and yet 694 00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:19,470 exactly I was thinking about cuz I was 695 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:21,600 just I saw a Bronx Tale the other night 696 00:26:26,090 --> 00:26:23,370 which is only ok by the way for 697 00:26:28,820 --> 00:26:26,100 listeners but yeah there they are 698 00:26:31,070 --> 00:26:28,830 singing and dancing away I'm like ok 699 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:31,080 what is all this argument that you can't 700 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:32,730 sing and dance these guys are singing 701 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:35,370 and dancing their asses off right yeah 702 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:38,970 exactly but I also think the training is 703 00:26:42,620 --> 00:26:40,890 different I don't know I think like a 704 00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:42,630 lot of people sort of get thrust into 705 00:26:48,529 --> 00:26:43,470 the 706 00:26:50,930 --> 00:26:48,539 is a really good example of somebody who 707 00:26:53,330 --> 00:26:50,940 actually but I went back and learn how 708 00:26:54,860 --> 00:26:53,340 to sing you know for Evita and she she 709 00:26:57,070 --> 00:26:54,870 held onto a lot of that technique and 710 00:27:00,350 --> 00:26:57,080 she does sound today better a lot better 711 00:27:04,220 --> 00:27:00,360 in concert and she did you know the 712 00:27:06,140 --> 00:27:04,230 first few tours that she did well anyway 713 00:27:08,090 --> 00:27:06,150 that's good to hear if Broadway feels 714 00:27:10,669 --> 00:27:08,100 that it would be an absolute faux pas to 715 00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:10,679 not sing live that the expectation is 716 00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:12,000 you're going to see a live performance 717 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:13,919 and everybody's performing and singing 718 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:17,610 live I would just say I think that same 719 00:27:24,830 --> 00:27:20,610 standard should apply to concerts yeah 720 00:27:27,860 --> 00:27:24,840 yeah I mean I just went a beat just 721 00:27:30,980 --> 00:27:27,870 because I've you know grown up watching 722 00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:30,990 this happen and you know I just think 723 00:27:37,010 --> 00:27:32,880 that there are more elements to pop 724 00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:37,020 music than just the voice you know this 725 00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:40,740 spectacle too and also you know I know 726 00:27:47,620 --> 00:27:42,960 that celebrities have a charmed life and 727 00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:47,630 that they get a lot and that their jobs 728 00:27:55,850 --> 00:27:52,080 relative to like a lot of jobs are very 729 00:27:58,669 --> 00:27:55,860 easy but they're also very hard so it's 730 00:28:00,919 --> 00:27:58,679 tough when you're in the public eye and 731 00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:00,929 people have these expectations of you 732 00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:03,600 and what are you gonna do are you gonna 733 00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:06,000 give them your humanity or you can give 734 00:28:10,970 --> 00:28:07,860 them the perfection that they expect 735 00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:10,980 I understand deferring to the latter you 736 00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:12,720 know as much as it's nice to see the 737 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:14,520 former you know as much as it's nice to 738 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:18,090 hear I mean like you know clearly Mariah 739 00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:19,770 Carey's voice has changed a lot right 740 00:28:25,370 --> 00:28:22,200 and and I think that part of her problem 741 00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,380 is that she set herself up to fail as 742 00:28:29,980 --> 00:28:27,840 her voice changed but you know if you go 743 00:28:32,570 --> 00:28:29,990 through the catalog of Joni Mitchell 744 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:32,580 sequentially you hear her voice drop 745 00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:35,010 throughout the years and I think there's 746 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:36,480 something really beautiful in that I 747 00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:37,770 think there's something beautiful and 748 00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:39,360 the fact that the last Whitney Houston 749 00:28:42,980 --> 00:28:41,580 her voice was in tatters because there 750 00:28:45,230 --> 00:28:42,990 was something really soulful her voice 751 00:28:48,620 --> 00:28:45,240 her life was really tattooed on her 752 00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:48,630 voice in a way that's somewhat socially 753 00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:51,720 unacceptable and yet to me very moving 754 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:53,760 so yeah I mean I think it's fine for 755 00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:55,530 people to be human but I understand that